This is maybe the most important theme you write on. I’ve noticed since the publication of The Anxious Generation that Haidt and his collaborators have basically stopped writing about the phones themselves, and have shifted almost entirely to their “step 0” (the loss of community) which leads to “step 1” (loss of independent play) which leads to step 2 (phone-based childhoods).
You were on this theme earlier and in a more helpful way for us godless urban liberals 😝 (Haidt’s milieu seems to be writing as if the only way to restore community and childhood independence is to move to a religious-based intentional community).
I get a little thrill every time you write down! in public! under your real name! that you leave an 8 year old at home alone for a short time, or let a 10 year old go to a store alone. We do that too, but we’re very cautious about who we tell.
We have a friend who works in the Ministry of Children, Community, and Social Services here in Ontario and I’m trying to get her fired up about this stuff. She has horror stories about Child Protective Services being called on parents who let their kids ride public transit without parents (and yes, there’s a racial element to it). We are never going to get to widespread acceptance of this kind of childhood independence while the nuclear-apocalypse-level threat of a CPS report hangs over parents.
Thanks, Geoff. It's encouraging to hear your feedback, and a good reminder that this is an area I should explore more. I know Haidt's team is trying to talk more about the 4th norm in coming months, encouraging more independent play, so hopefully you'll hear about it. But I agree with you that parents desperately need practical advice that they can implement immediately, at home, without relying on a broader community.
We (my wife and I) have raised four daughters; all are adult now.
I could not agree more with all your recommendations: walking to school, to groceries, doing chores, trying to cook—with mixed results :) . Once, the two older sisters took a bus to get to a store or so—I don't remember—and on the way back they took a bus in the wrong direction. They realized that they were going wrong way; they asked, got out, found a bus stop in the opposite direction, got back home.
Your boys are extremely, extremely lucky to have such a wise parent.
Love this. I would add an idea for those of us who want to build independence in kids who are old enough for solo errands but not quite old enough to navigate a longer, more dangerous walk/bike ride: give them cash or a card and send them into the store with a list while you wait in the car. I’ve started doing this in easy-to-navigate grocery stores and it is such a confidence booster for my kids!
I was not a leash kid per se, but my parents did tranquilize me using a variety of tactics and technologies.
I’m Harrison, an ex fine dining industry line cook. My stack "The Secret Ingredient" adapts hit restaurant recipes (mostly NYC and L.A.) for easy home cooking.
It was kind of serendipitous that I read this today. This afternoon, I need to shop for a dress for an upcoming event, a task I already know my boys will have zero interest in. (Rightfully so.) I told them this morning that they could take my debit card and walk down the street to an ice cream shop we like, and then sit and eat their ice cream while I do my shopping. It’s the first time I’ve done something like this and I’m honestly really excited for them. We’ve been working up to this in many ways for years and years now, and I can’t wait to see that flush of pride on their faces when I join them after their adventure.
I love these strategies. Others we employ with our elementary age kids are:
Have them order for themselves in restaurants so they get used to the flow of ordering beverages, food and asking for condiments, etc.
Assisting with scanning and paying for groceries at self-service stations, so they know how to use these machines.
Have them go and knock on the door of a neighbor kid’s house to see if they’re home (not me texting or calling ahead).
Allowing them to have art sales in front of the house and me having nothing to do with it. My kids, along with two neighborhood friends, did this before Easter selling colorings and they knocked on neighbors’ doors asking if they wanted to come and see their “shop” and made over $50.
So many great ideas! My kids are 6 and 4 and I feel like I’m really starting to see ways in which they can practice independence. I’ve started letting them walk to the park across the street without me, and spending longer periods of time in different parts of the house. Not only has it been great for fostering independence, they’re solving problems they would look to me to solve if I was in the same room and the break from the sensory overload is making me more patient when we are in the same room!
I agree with so much of this but especially the walking/biking piece. We give our kids a fair bit of independence partially because I was raised in a rural community so it’s familiar to me and partially because my kids seem to have personalities that skew towards a lot of confidence in themselves leading to a greater comfort with independence as they move through the world. They’ve gotten themselves successfully out of a few tricky situations (especially our 9yo) because they know how to navigate and identify landmarks in our community.
I’ve read your thoughts on phones and social media, but I’m curious if or how you use any sort of GPS (AirTag, a watch, etc) with your kids. Our older kids are 9 and 6 so they’re mostly just going to friends houses, the corner store or third spaces where I can get in touch with them or easily find them (we need more third spaces!), but I’m curious how I’ll approach that as their worlds get bigger.
Hi Lauren. No, I don't use any kind of tracker, and I don't think it's a great path to start down with kids. As they get older, their geographic range increases with their ability and maturity, so in a way, my level of concern remains the same as when they were smaller. My teenage sons are expected to tell me where they're going, roughly when they'll be back, who they'll be with, and then I let them go. Until they blow it (which they haven't yet!), I simply choose to keep trusting them to handle themselves.
There's been some interesting research in Europe about how teens who are tracked by parents tend to engage in riskier behaviours because there's a false sense of security in knowing their parents can see where they are. I think, at a certain point, parents need to ask themselves whether it's really about tracking the kid or about assuaging their own anxieties, and maybe they need to address that! Perhaps providing a basic phone that allows for calls and texts would be a good workaround, if necessary, but even that can get in the way of children developing a real sense of independence.
This is maybe the most important theme you write on. I’ve noticed since the publication of The Anxious Generation that Haidt and his collaborators have basically stopped writing about the phones themselves, and have shifted almost entirely to their “step 0” (the loss of community) which leads to “step 1” (loss of independent play) which leads to step 2 (phone-based childhoods).
You were on this theme earlier and in a more helpful way for us godless urban liberals 😝 (Haidt’s milieu seems to be writing as if the only way to restore community and childhood independence is to move to a religious-based intentional community).
I get a little thrill every time you write down! in public! under your real name! that you leave an 8 year old at home alone for a short time, or let a 10 year old go to a store alone. We do that too, but we’re very cautious about who we tell.
We have a friend who works in the Ministry of Children, Community, and Social Services here in Ontario and I’m trying to get her fired up about this stuff. She has horror stories about Child Protective Services being called on parents who let their kids ride public transit without parents (and yes, there’s a racial element to it). We are never going to get to widespread acceptance of this kind of childhood independence while the nuclear-apocalypse-level threat of a CPS report hangs over parents.
Thanks, Geoff. It's encouraging to hear your feedback, and a good reminder that this is an area I should explore more. I know Haidt's team is trying to talk more about the 4th norm in coming months, encouraging more independent play, so hopefully you'll hear about it. But I agree with you that parents desperately need practical advice that they can implement immediately, at home, without relying on a broader community.
Yes! Geoff, well said!
We (my wife and I) have raised four daughters; all are adult now.
I could not agree more with all your recommendations: walking to school, to groceries, doing chores, trying to cook—with mixed results :) . Once, the two older sisters took a bus to get to a store or so—I don't remember—and on the way back they took a bus in the wrong direction. They realized that they were going wrong way; they asked, got out, found a bus stop in the opposite direction, got back home.
Your boys are extremely, extremely lucky to have such a wise parent.
Thank you! I'm not sure they always agree... ;)
Love this. I would add an idea for those of us who want to build independence in kids who are old enough for solo errands but not quite old enough to navigate a longer, more dangerous walk/bike ride: give them cash or a card and send them into the store with a list while you wait in the car. I’ve started doing this in easy-to-navigate grocery stores and it is such a confidence booster for my kids!
Great advice!
Talking to strangers builds confidence. Chatting with strangers online builds false confidence.
I was not a leash kid per se, but my parents did tranquilize me using a variety of tactics and technologies.
I’m Harrison, an ex fine dining industry line cook. My stack "The Secret Ingredient" adapts hit restaurant recipes (mostly NYC and L.A.) for easy home cooking.
check us out:
https://thesecretingredient.substack.com
It was kind of serendipitous that I read this today. This afternoon, I need to shop for a dress for an upcoming event, a task I already know my boys will have zero interest in. (Rightfully so.) I told them this morning that they could take my debit card and walk down the street to an ice cream shop we like, and then sit and eat their ice cream while I do my shopping. It’s the first time I’ve done something like this and I’m honestly really excited for them. We’ve been working up to this in many ways for years and years now, and I can’t wait to see that flush of pride on their faces when I join them after their adventure.
I love these strategies. Others we employ with our elementary age kids are:
Have them order for themselves in restaurants so they get used to the flow of ordering beverages, food and asking for condiments, etc.
Assisting with scanning and paying for groceries at self-service stations, so they know how to use these machines.
Have them go and knock on the door of a neighbor kid’s house to see if they’re home (not me texting or calling ahead).
Allowing them to have art sales in front of the house and me having nothing to do with it. My kids, along with two neighborhood friends, did this before Easter selling colorings and they knocked on neighbors’ doors asking if they wanted to come and see their “shop” and made over $50.
So many great ideas! My kids are 6 and 4 and I feel like I’m really starting to see ways in which they can practice independence. I’ve started letting them walk to the park across the street without me, and spending longer periods of time in different parts of the house. Not only has it been great for fostering independence, they’re solving problems they would look to me to solve if I was in the same room and the break from the sensory overload is making me more patient when we are in the same room!
I agree with so much of this but especially the walking/biking piece. We give our kids a fair bit of independence partially because I was raised in a rural community so it’s familiar to me and partially because my kids seem to have personalities that skew towards a lot of confidence in themselves leading to a greater comfort with independence as they move through the world. They’ve gotten themselves successfully out of a few tricky situations (especially our 9yo) because they know how to navigate and identify landmarks in our community.
I’ve read your thoughts on phones and social media, but I’m curious if or how you use any sort of GPS (AirTag, a watch, etc) with your kids. Our older kids are 9 and 6 so they’re mostly just going to friends houses, the corner store or third spaces where I can get in touch with them or easily find them (we need more third spaces!), but I’m curious how I’ll approach that as their worlds get bigger.
Hi Lauren. No, I don't use any kind of tracker, and I don't think it's a great path to start down with kids. As they get older, their geographic range increases with their ability and maturity, so in a way, my level of concern remains the same as when they were smaller. My teenage sons are expected to tell me where they're going, roughly when they'll be back, who they'll be with, and then I let them go. Until they blow it (which they haven't yet!), I simply choose to keep trusting them to handle themselves.
There's been some interesting research in Europe about how teens who are tracked by parents tend to engage in riskier behaviours because there's a false sense of security in knowing their parents can see where they are. I think, at a certain point, parents need to ask themselves whether it's really about tracking the kid or about assuaging their own anxieties, and maybe they need to address that! Perhaps providing a basic phone that allows for calls and texts would be a good workaround, if necessary, but even that can get in the way of children developing a real sense of independence.